1	Discussion Forums / Open Discussion / Re: Ping  on: 27.03.2010 at 12:53:35
Started by KingKell | Post by NormMonkey
Apparently we're all not here anymore.   (I've been ignoring my RSS feeds for awhile on the principle that news is depressing)

2	Discussion Forums / Open Discussion / Ping  on: 02.02.2010 at 02:47:18
Started by KingKell | Post by KingKell
I miss you guys!  Anyone out there?

3	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / Re: My Turn  on: 24.11.2009 at 08:41:13
Started by KingKell | Post by NormMonkey
WOOT!  Congratulations!   Awesome!   (sorry for this delayed response; I haven't read my RSS feed in awhile)

4	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / My Turn  on: 13.11.2009 at 20:04:56
Started by KingKell | Post by KingKell
Last night I asked my girlfriend to marry me.  She said yes!

5	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / Re: Car hunting  on: 12.09.2009 at 20:11:18
Started by NormMonkey | Post by NormMonkey
I'll get to negotiations in a moment.   We test-drove a 2007 Caliber and then a 2003 Impala.     Turns out Hunnybear liked the Impala more than the Caliber.  This is good, 'cause it's cheaper.  One thing I didn't mention earlier (perhaps because it's so obvious): by the end of the test drive you should not only have spotted any obvious technical flaws (squeaks, no A/C, shudders, etc.) but you should also decide if you really, personally are attracted to the car.   For example I drove a Toyota Echo and discovered I don't really like how it handles, even when it is technically operating optimally.  Terra decided she preferred the Impala to the newer, less used and more valuable Caliber.  Look and feel are subjective and specific to you alone.   Okay, negotiations.   The dealer wants to get list price and wants to get you to buy options and accessories and extras.  You want a lower price and/or stuff thrown in for free, although lower price is usually better than freebies.   We went to a smaller dealership so we were spared the usual extras they try to sell you (special house-brand under-coat rustproofing blah blah blah).     This is the part where you want to bring up all your concerns.  The Impala, for example, has issues with reliability.  It consistently appeared to have more troubles compared to other vehicles no matter where I looked.     I mentioned to the dealer that while we do like everything about the Impala, I was worried that the failed A/C and the noises were signs confirming the notion that I had that Impalas have a record of reliability issues.     I forgot the papers I printed out so I instead asked to borrow his computer and pulled up a website listing some, to better demonstrate my concerns.   His response was that they would certainly fix all the issues right away (the squeak and the A/C).  As we talked about it some more, he offered a free warranty as a means to allay my concerns.   Warranties are particularly interesting because they have value in that they would normally cost you something to buy but I think it costs a dealer very little to offer you one in this manner.   In the end I used concerns that the warranty might not cover some of the issues (e.g. a powertrain warranty won't cover a faulty lock cylinder) and we started talking about "bending the price" instead.   Ultimately the dealer will want you to make a decision immediately.  You don't want to do this.  You want to go home and examine your options in the clear light of day under no pressure.  The dealer may offer you incentives to get you to decide right away.  Resist.   However, even with this in mind I caved 'cause he did make what I felt was a genuinely good offer.  If we were negotiating for a $12-15k used car, I would not have felt comfortable breaking this rule.   This is ultimately one of the dealers' biggest weapons (giving incentives for you to decide right away) and one of your biggest playing cards, too (saying that you don't feel comfortable making a decision under pressure and that you want time to make a good decision).   I admit that feeling as though I was letting a good opportunity go had a significant magnetic draw.  In that sense, the dealer won.  However, I feel we really did get a good deal on the Chevy Impala we ultimately ended up buying, so I think we won, too.   Your Mileage May Vary.

6	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / Re: Car hunting  on: 12.09.2009 at 19:43:56
Started by NormMonkey | Post by NormMonkey
Before I start talking about test driving, I review my alternate method of finding targets.   If searching kijiji.ca doesn't work for you, the other way to locate local targets is to scour dealers and papers, etc.  It takes more work but it might fit your criteria better.  For example if you want a more recent model there'll be more to be found at dealers than on websites.  You may not want to use a computer (but if that's you then you're not reading this, eh?).   I should also point out that my initial contact method was almost exclusively emails and kijiji contacts.  Most kijijiers posted phone numbers.  That would have been a smarter way to go.   Okay, meeting and test driving.   (*) More research!  (whaaat!?!)   Whenever you have a specific car you're about to look at, come prepared.  I looked up safety and reliability information on each one from http://edmunds.com and http://carcomplaints.com as well as just searching with your specific year/make/model and keywords like "lemon", "problems", "complaints", "sux", etc.   Now, when you go to your meeting, you'll have some specific things to look for.   I ended up contacting a dealer who'd listed a Chevy Impala.  Turns out from his dealer website he also had a Dodge Caliber on the lot.     I printed out some specifics on reliability but forgot to bring the pages with me.  At least I knew sort of what was on them.  Oh well.   Actions with dealers usually follow this progression: (*) The look-see; (*) The test-drive; (*) The negotiations.   (*) The look-see   This is where you walk around the car and look at it while the dealer tries to impress you with how wonderful various things about the car are.  Don't let the dealer distract you too much from what you really want to pay attention to.  Take note of what they say, but beware that they're only pointing out the nice things and also distracting you from the not nice things.   You'll want to look under the hood to see the general shape of the car.  Keep in mind that they usually clean here, so it'll look nicer than your current car.  Look for rust.  Check the serpentine belt for cracks.  Look around, focusing on specific components and evaluating their general shape.   Cars are full of components under the hood so it's easy to miss the trees for the forest.  Don't do that.   Look underneath the car.  Especially look for rust and wear.  Don't forget to check the muffler, but since this is Canada it's probably got some rust.   Feel free to mention things you find aloud in passing, but ignore the dealer when they try to counter what you say.  You say "hrm, rusty muffler!"  They say "it's actually in pretty good shape despite a few spots of rust, and did I mention this car has new brakes and tires?!"  Don't go back and forth about the muffler here.  Save it for the negotiations.   We spotted some rust spots and scratches.  In one car, we found an accessory (detachable flashlight in the rear of the Caliber that wasn't working) and in the Impala a handle used to move the 60/40 split seats was detached and sitting in the trunk.   Look for signs of any of the specific reliability issues that you cleverly researched beforehand.  Look for parts that have been replaced recently and wonder if it makes sense that they were.   Push down on the front and the back to test the shocks (good shocks will settle after just a bounce or less).   (*) Test drive   The dealer may just let you go off on your own or they may go with you.  If they go with you they're going to try and sell you on things ("Notice the smooth ride!")  This is kind of distracting since you're supposed to be driving and trying to notice not-good things.  Have a friend go with you and make sure one of you is looking for not-good things and is ignoring the salesperson.   We were lucky; our dealer just gave us the keys and sent us on our way.  We test-drove both, starting with the Caliber.   Start off by getting your seat and mirrors positioned properly for you.  Safety first!  Test things like power windows, locks, etc. before you get on the road.  You don't want to be futzing with things while you drive.  I go on and on about this because it's kind of important.   We ended up noticing a slight squeal on deceleration and a broken A/C.  That reminds me: test things.  Have your friend play with the stereo and other things (safely, of course: if they crank it up and blow your eardrums while you're trying to drive, open the door and shove 'em out).   As the test driver, leave playing with accessories to your friend.  Focus on the ride.  Does it shift well?  Does it brake well?  (obviously don't brake in the middle of a busy road to find out)  Does it respond well when you give 'er?  Does it respond well to gentle acceleration?  No noises in the power steering?     This one's important: find a high-speed roadway like the Queensway.  You want to get your new car up to speed so you can spot high-speed shuddering and other issues that might not show up at 50km/h.     Personally, handling is important to me so when I get it up to speed I like to wiggle the steering back and forth to see if it hugs the road like a cheetah or lolls about like a top-heavy elephant.  I may have mentioned this way back in the Corolla test-driving days.  This kind of manoeuvring may frighten your passengers, so warn them beforehand.  Also save this for the end of your trip.   Next post: negotiations.

7	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / Re: Car hunting  on: 12.09.2009 at 19:12:05
Started by NormMonkey | Post by NormMonkey
We have completed the latest car-buying adventure.   Here's the process I used:   (*) Figure out what's important to you about the car you want (compact?  big?  fuel-efficient?  safety?  reliability?  brand?  green?)   We wanted something big enough to be a decent family car.  My Toyota Corolla, a compact sedan, is too small.  We did not want a minivan or a SUV.  Safety is important, as is reliability.  Fuel economy ended up being farther down the list than I would have liked.   I posted earlier about the criteria we had.  As you might expect, some criteria place constraints on others.  For example, I found out later on that our price range meant shifting our target year downwards to 2001-2005 or so.  I also added less-than-115k kms as a criterium.  Finally, note that criteria should be guidelines not hard rules (duh).   (*) Compile a comparison list of all the cars that match your most important criteria   The form factor was the most important thing for us, so I built a list of mostly mid-size and large sedans and wagons.  Yes, there are a lot.  It was a big list and I'm sure it was missing lots, too.  Here's how I made it: (i) Pick a year close to your target year (I chose 2005).   (ii) Find a website that has a nice big list of vehicles by type.  I found a list of mid-size sedans.  Can't remember the website name. (iii) Use http://edmunds.com to get comparison stats for each model.  This site had pages with enough detail for me.   As time went on I also added to the list based on things people told me, stuff I saw on the roads, etc. (Hunnybear, for example, added the Dodge Caliber.  I added the Honda CR-V even though it's a SUV).   The edmunds.com site has a price called the True Market Value.  It's not accurate for Canadian prices at all, but it serves as a good comparison between models, so I included that info.   (*) Narrow your list down to a few more interesting models.   We ended up being interested in the Dodge Magnum, Chevy Impala, Dodge Caliber, Toyota Scion (ew, kleenexbox!), VW Passat, and a few others.   (*) Search websites for actual local pricing on specific models.   Now we're getting down to the part where we start actually contacting people and test-driving cars.     I ended up searching almost exclusively on http://kijiji.ca.  I started with carcanada.com and autotrader.ca.  While I did learn a bit about local pricing, their stock didn't match my list.  kijiji.ca listed loads of cars for sale, and it was fun to search.   I ended up just searching for all cars in our price range (our range was $6-8k, but because of the way Humans price things I set the search from $5750 to $8200), ordered by date of post.  That way once I made it through the list once (heh) I could refresh it and find the most interesting recent posts easily.   Along the way, if I saw interesting deals I sent out contact messages and if I saw interesting cars I researched them on Edmunds and added some to the list (e.g. the Saturn LW200).  If I found a model on my list but in a different year I made sure to research that specific year/make/model/trim 'cause the build changes from year to year, sometimes significantly.   (*) Plan on people being slower than you want in contacting you back.     Most people contacted me back after we'd already made a deal.  It's probably wiser to be more patient than we were.  On the other hand, if you see a car that meets all your criteria, you contact someone and the door opens, walk through it.   Next post: meeting, test-driving and dealing

8	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / Re: Car hunting  on: 08.09.2009 at 17:59:20
Started by NormMonkey | Post by KingKell
Still here, but don't have much to contribute to this thread.  Been driving my girlfriends Volvo and it's surprisingly nice (sorry that's all I got).

9	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / Re: Car hunting  on: 04.09.2009 at 16:38:24
Started by NormMonkey | Post by NormMonkey
Once again I ask all forumers for their input / advice / comments / random thoughts.   If there are any left.   Hello?     Anybody out there?

10	Discussion Forums / Press Releases / Re: Car hunting  on: 04.09.2009 at 16:37:39
Started by NormMonkey | Post by NormMonkey
So, mah hunnybear's car is getting long in the tooth.     A bearing / CV problem that three different mechanics have failed to find / fix.   Muffler went gerschplaten (damn you Canada).  Although that was an easy fix, the way it's designed means a hole is left in the muffler. She has the old starter motor problem (sometimes won't start 'til you beat on the starter motor with a +5 Heavy Metal Object).  This one tends to manifest itself at snot-freezing temperatures. Broken parking brake, and the parking pawl is sensitive to having load put on it (cable-to-transmission joint might pop off). Hood release no longer works -- cable is lying on the side of some road, and opening the hood involves crawling underneath. She occasionally smells like gas for no good reason. She has shudders at high speeds, and other funky noises that appear during braking and turning and, you know, moving. She occasionally stutters when it's raining out, as if water had somehow gotten into the fuel system.   In short, this is the kind of car you don't want to leave town with.     It's time for her to go the Great Car Celestia.   Things we want in a new car: (*) Mid-size or large sedan (*) Safety (*) Reliability (*) Fuel efficiency (*) 2004-2007 / $6-8k (*) Domestic   I was re-reading this thread to get a feel for how I did this last time, and I like my old process so I'm going to repeat it:   (*) Pick a representative year (2005) and build a list of makes/models to compare -- top 10 list (*) Narrow these down with Mah Hunnybear's feedback to a top 2-3 list (*) Test drive / ogle the finalists   (*) Buy something